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#1 Azure Arabians

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 05:43 PM

I have decided to breed my bask el amigo daughter to this guy. I really like him but I really dont know much about saddlebreds as far as bloodlines. Is he bred to trot are his lines known in the Saddle bred World? I know that his sire is very popular among arab people. You can email me privately also with information.
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#2 Renae

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:57 PM

He only has 6 registered Saddlebred get and none of them have any show record on the Saddlebred circuit. He himself has no show record on the Saddlebred cicuit. That should tell you a lot.

The great-grandsire of this horse, Hot August Night, is alright. When Hot August Night was shown he was locally successful as a Fine Harness horse and he has sired some local level Saddlebred show horse. I have seen some bad club feet/terrible front leg conformation sired by that horse, but they have good attitudes, will keep trotting even when they are tripping over themself.

Really, if you are intersted in pinto Saddlebreds check Monaco and El Cortez. Monaco has an extensive show record as a Fine Harness and Park horse and El Cortez as a Halter baby and Fine Harness Horse. Both are proven perormance horses and proven sires of performance horses in the Saddlebred world. El Cortez has one hell of a dam, the great gaited mare CH Belle Elegant. Monaco is standing for $1000, I'm not sure about El Cortez.

When looking at pinto Saddlebreds keep in mind that the Pinto circuit and Saddlebred circuit are miles apart from each other and most horses that only show the pinto circuit would not fair quite so well on the Saddelbred circuit. The spotted horses that are quality can show wherever they want and win, evident by horses like Monaco, El Cortez, Sprinkles, etc.
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#3 dreamcatcherarabians

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE(Azure Arabians @ May 24 2007, 05:43 PM) View Post
I have decided to breed my bask el amigo daughter to this guy. I really like him but I really dont know much about saddlebreds as far as bloodlines. Is he bred to trot are his lines known in the Saddle bred World? I know that his sire is very popular among arab people. You can email me privately also with information.
Shauna


I really like Spotacular Fame. At one time I even had a breeding to him. My mare never settled and then his old owner sold the stallion to the new ones and they would not honor any live foal guarantees from outstanding breedings (but sent me several invitations to buy another breeding at almost 3X the price). The old owner did not retain any breedings to him so there were several of us left holding the bag. Due to that experience I can't recommend him nor would I buy another breeding to him in the future.

I have a friend who has a lovely daughter of his, trots like crazy, gorgeous markings, the whole package. And her legs and feet are excellent. She's out of an awesome mare and is just really a lovely horse. If she'll send me a pic of her I'll be happy to post it, that way you can see what she got.

My personal preference is SS Painted Intimidator, his owner is super easy to work with and he throws some awesome get.

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#4 JRTsRUs

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 05:55 PM

I have to agree with Renae on this. I have a dear friend that has been breeding Saddlebreds for a number of years ... primarily Pinto Saddlebreds. Some of her solid colored Saddlebred mares are from good trotting lines, and it has become quite apparent to me (over the years) that if you want TROT, Monaco is a good choice (for color and trot POTENTIAL). If you're REALLY after trot (foremost), I'd forget about the Pinto markings all together and look for a proven producer of foals that can trot. Kim (here on ABH) has had quite good results from her Arab-Saddlebred crosses. Might want to check with her. While I like the looks of Spotacular Fame ... in my OWN OPINION he's big and beautiful for the COLOR ... not for the TROT production.
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#5 tapper

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 06:21 PM

I'd look more at the lines that are Saddlebred, and just happen to be Pinto. imo, Spotacular Fame is a Pinot, who just happens to be ASB.. big difference.
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#6 Fairfax

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE(Renae @ May 24 2007, 09:57 PM) View Post
He only has 6 registered Saddlebred get and none of them have any show record on the Saddlebred circuit. He himself has no show record on the Saddlebred cicuit. That should tell you a lot.

The great-grandsire of this horse, Hot August Night, is alright. When Hot August Night was shown he was locally successful as a Fine Harness horse and he has sired some local level Saddlebred show horse. I have seen some bad club feet/terrible front leg conformation sired by that horse, but they have good attitudes, will keep trotting even when they are tripping over themself.

Really, if you are intersted in pinto Saddlebreds check Monaco and El Cortez. Monaco has an extensive show record as a Fine Harness and Park horse and El Cortez as a Halter baby and Fine Harness Horse. Both are proven perormance horses and proven sires of performance horses in the Saddlebred world. El Cortez has one hell of a dam, the great gaited mare CH Belle Elegant. Monaco is standing for $1000, I'm not sure about El Cortez.

When looking at pinto Saddlebreds keep in mind that the Pinto circuit and Saddlebred circuit are miles apart from each other and most horses that only show the pinto circuit would not fair quite so well on the Saddelbred circuit. The spotted horses that are quality can show wherever they want and win, evident by horses like Monaco, El Cortez, Sprinkles, etc.

I agree with you regarding Monaco. Had a colt by him last year who could trot up a storm He was out of Love Song of Silver Oaks They were sold to California based on the quality of the colt

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#7 brentwoodarab

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:06 AM



This is Spotacular Fame. He is a son Of Color Of Fame and out of Barons' Reverie. He has excellant conformation, trot, and COLOR . He is homozygous pinto, meaning he can only produce pinto. He also tends to produce bays. Spotacular is a leading pinto sire, and also is making his name known as an excellant half arabian sire.

While Monaco is lovely and gifted, he is not homozygous. He will produce as many solids as pintos. When people are trying to breed for color and quality, they will shop for a homozygous stallion, as there will be no wasted years trying ti obtain color.

Personally, as long as quality is paramount, I think color is fun.

I'd be glad to talk about him more via email. I can give you Spots web page info. :)


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#8 brentwoodarab

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:10 AM



This is The Color of Victory. He is by Spotacular Fame and out of Shah's Victory Danse by Dark Victory. He is owned by Liz Ball ( Spotaculars' owner). She showed him at Scottsdale as a yearling, where he was pinned JR CH HA Stockhunter. He is currently being started under saddle. ( theres a video of him, as well as his sire on Liz's website.)
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2010 Region 11 Champion H/A Sad/pl



Go Placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all people.Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit...desiderata

#9 brentwoodarab

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:18 AM



One more shot of Color of Victory, taken at Scottsdale at leisure. He's been exciting to watch and is marvelous to handle.

Liz's fees are quite reasonable, she has honored EVERY breeding still owed by the former owner, and has bent over backwards to insure quality semen, two packs per shipment, and on time deliveries. Last season she shipped first shipment free! This year she dropped $500 off the stud fee, and people pay their own shipping.

I believe saying she wanted 3X the regular fee is outright lying.

If you want to see him, in person, or on video, or see more of his get, I'd be proud to direct you to his owner, who is a very dear friend, and excellant horse woman.

Please PM or email me for more info.

Best Regards,
Darcy Gray - proud owner of Just Spotacular , HA Gelding.
Darcy Gray
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*JUST SPOTACULAR ( Spotacular Fame x Justshahkhema CLA) '06 bay tobiano HA gelding
2007 Mid America-1st place HA yearling colts/geldings
2010 NIAHAC Champion H/A Gelding
2010 Region 11 Champion H/A Sad/pl



Go Placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all people.Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit...desiderata

#10 Renae

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:53 AM

Darcy, all these Color Me Hot horses are very pretty standing still, but what one can see of this horse's front leg conformation at the odd angle and with wraps on looks very typical of the line to me. Interesting that the other vanity shots don't even show the legs.

QUOTE(brentwoodarab @ May 27 2007, 08:10 AM) View Post
She showed him at Scottsdale as a yearling, where he was pinned JR CH HA Stockhunter.

If the horse could actually trot he should have been shown saddle/pleasure type, that he won as a stock/hunter horse should be telling.

There are proven producers of Saddlebred World's Championship contenders that stand for $1500 and less. A $1000 stud fee for a Saddlebred stallion that has only ever produced a few horses for the pinto and half-arab circuits is outrageous. This may be a fine horse to breed to if you want a spotted Half-Arab halter horse. If you want to increase your odds of getting a performance horse there are better choices.

Also a correction:
QUOTE
He is a son Of Color Of Fame and out of Barons' Reverie.

No. Spotacular Fame is by Color of Fame. Baroness' Reverie is the dame of Color of Fame. Spotacular Fame's dam is Double-J's Harlequin Doll by Kalarama's Gallant King.
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#11 dreamcatcherarabians

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:10 AM

"she has honored EVERY breeding still owed by the former owner
I believe saying she wanted 3X the regular fee is outright lying."

Darcy,
I am telling you she has NOT honored every breeding as I have a signed contract for Spotacular Fame in my file drawer and I have NO, NONE, NADA, Spotacular Get in my back yard.

Due to a package deal we went in on, the stud fee we paid was $500/each breeding. The first year she had him, the fee was $1200 and that is what I was told I could pay if I still wanted my Spotacular Fame foal, as she WAS NOT honoring live foal guarantees. I also have a friend in the same boat, except she is holding more than 1 breeding, and all she got was the lovely filly I mentioned in my previous post.

If $1200 is not almost 3x what I paid then I don't know math. I never said she wanted 3X HER regular fee, just 3X what I had already paid. Don't call me a liar again. I did not say ANYTHING untrue about my dissatisfaction with their service and I've said nothing untrue about the horse, whom I still like very much.

So I paid my agreed upon price in full and have nothing to show for it. Granted it wasn't the largest stud fee ever and until now I've kept quiet about the whole thing, but to be called a liar for voicing dissatisfaction is just plain over line.

However, due to SF's owners (both old & new) poor customer service after the transaction I can't and won't recommend him to anyone.

I now prefer SS Painted Intimidater, whose get are winning a lot in halter and the 1st foal crop is doing very well in the show ring. His owner is very easy to deal with and has in fact, bent over backwards to try to help make up for the $500 I threw away, even if it wasn't to her horse.


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#12 Azure Arabians

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 11:21 PM

I am not necessarily trying to breed a saddleseat horse for this particular breeding. I am interested in an athletic animal and I am concerned about temperment and conformation though.


Edited because I dont want to be responsible for having comments that continue this to be aired publically...sorry I just dont believe in it because of the public opinion and judgement that inevitably follows and there is absolutely no way to know the complete truth in any matter.



Thanks everyone for the remarks I think all the stallions you have listed are very nice animals and I do have videos coming on them.
Shauna

#13 Azure Arabians

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 11:36 PM

well this wont let me edit...
I really shouldnt have said anything as I dont know if there were retained breedings and I personally DONT want to know anymore about the situation. So if it ever lets me in I will erase it I dont want to be responsible for a thread about who did what to whom and especially the following public opinion in the matter. I just asked about a horses pedigree :)

#14 dreamcatcherarabians

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 01:21 AM

You know Shauna, you did just ask about pedigree and such. I just wanted to state why I wouldn't recommend the horse. Never intended for this to become a heated discussion. Forwarned is forarmed.

I personally don't care if you do or do not breed to SF, I really DO like this horse and my friend's filly is outstanding. She trots up a storm and is gorgeous to boot. Good luck what ever your choice.
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#15 Annabella

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 08:06 AM

I do not see anything wrong with a person airing a concern about an owner; that person will be the one to be held responsible for their words. If the owner takes issue with it, they can defend themselves; they can come to this thread and maybe offer to take a better look at this situation and/or maybe offer to resolve this situation. That would be the best free advertising ever; offering to resolve a conflict for all to see.
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#16 Maria

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 10:54 AM

Having shown on the Saddlebred circut in the past, I will second many of the opinions expressed here. There are hardly any (there are a few) Color of Fame, spotacular fame and painted intimidator horses that are english. They are hunt and western....which is fine.

But...a Saddlebred should move like the standard suggests. These horses are BEAUTIFUL..some of the half arab babies are breathtaking...but they CANNOT trot. We already see enough purebred halter horses that go on to do NOTHING once their "stand pretty" career is over. Do we need more?

Check out anything that Scripps (Michelle McFarland) bred or has. They are in California and are the folks that had Chubasco. Monaco is excellent as well. I remember this horse when he was showing with Wyatt DeHart in Minnestota. I rememer thinking that he was going to have great half-arab babies.

If you are in the midwest, there is an up and coming Pinto Saddlebred stud at Centre Pointe in Delano , MN. "Kyber" can trot like he is climbing a mountain. I have no affiliation with this barn, I just know the horse is freaking awesome, and no one knows about him yet.

the horse's name is Khyber Pass
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#17 dreamcatcherarabians

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:49 AM

"
But...a Saddlebred should move like the standard suggests. These horses are BEAUTIFUL..some of the half arab babies are breathtaking...but they CANNOT trot. "

Well, let's look at goals for a minute. I don't ride Saddleseat and don't particularly have a lot of interest in learning. I had a big black Saddlebred as a kid who was soooo smooth in his gaits, ultra kind, and could jump the moon. He also took me out on trail and we did a lot of fun things together.

So, I LOVE Saddlebreds. When I was growing up, they were touted as being an extremely versatile horse, some of whom could trot a hole in the ground.

I also LOVE a gorgeous pinto (not QH type) with a fabulous pattern and coloration.

I love hunters and jumpers and working cow horses.

The sire I have chosen is going to give me all those things, therefore meeting my goals. The mare(s) I have picked out for him are known to have good legs and hopefully compensate for any short comings in that department.

You want them to stick to standards for the breed in the trot department but these horses aren't Saddlebreds only. They are Pinto for one thing. That right there does not go down well with most died in the wool SB folks, they want a plain wrapper on their horses. By breeding to an Arabian and praying for a much more refined head, I'm waaaay outta the ballpark on standards again.

And I'm not breeding specifically for halter. I want a nice, smooth, gorgeous, Pinto USING horse. If everything is working the way it should, not only will I have a really nice pinto, I'll have a nice athlete who can go in the ring and show his/her heart out and the next day take me out trail riding.

That's what I'm breeding for, my personal Using horse. And maybe another one for my hubby since he keeps trying to steal my 2 yo now. FA02.gif If I GET a horse who can trot, that horse will immediately be for sale as it will not meet my goals.

Scripps has a fabulous breeding program and for those who are looking for a real trotter, they are an excellent choice.
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#18 Maria

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 12:43 PM

So true about Pinto being a matter of preference in the SB world. In the midwest, your pinto SB better be DA** good to win at the shows. However, in califormia, it is different. There are MANY pintos that clean up on the SB circut....likely the influence of Scripps.

They are a versitile horse...they do hunt and western. In fact, there are people that spend BIG money for western pleasure saddlebreds....but....

here it comes, dont jump down my throat...I'm just being honest

Those classes are predominatly filled with horses that did not work out as english horses. There are a few champions that were shown Western (I think you can earn CH points in western now...but this is a new development), but for the most part, they are horses that were not gifted with the necessary action to compete in saddle seat. Most decrimnating saddle bred breeders strive to breed horses with the trademark high action.

Not to say that an SB western horse isnt beautiful...I love, them. I rode and showed one. However, he was a horse that used to be three gaited and wasn't cutting it. He walked and therefore we tried western. He was great at it.

If we dont breed to a standard, what the heck are we doing? Whole other argument.

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#19 Azure Arabians

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:53 PM

Hey dreamcatcher,

I have no problem with you airing your concerns or experience and you have done it very tactfully, not my problem at all, its the trolls that inevitabley come out with opinions usually based on assumptions and rarely on facts and they dont care to get to the truth they jsut want to attack someone. those attacks could have been toward EITHER side, Just didnt want to be part of it IF that happened.
I posted and I deleted the post I was stating WHY I had deleted MY OWN post. I thought about what I had said and I didnt want to be in the middle of it. I am coming from the experience where I posted horses for sale for agood friend and someone that didnt finish a sale with my friend came on and attacked the friend and of course so then so did everyone else. People came forward unpromted that had bought horses from my friend and said how great an experience it was. then eventually even 2 more people came on and said how the buyer had also ripped them off. but noone seemed to care about that they had done attacked and moved on.
There are people who just like to attack and judge other people and they get off on this kind of stuff, I know how bad I felt that she got attacked and I dont want to be fire for those kinds of peoples response, just a personal choice. I was not trying to sound like I was judging you for what you did , I was actually judging myself:)

I am not breeding a saddlebred I am breeding a half arab. I want a big pinto riding horse, had a big half arab/saddlebred gelding that I liked and want another. This mare probably wouldnt produce a saddleseat horse even if I went and bred her to a world champion saddlebred. Dont need to breed to a breed standard its a half arab , breeding for what I like:)


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#20 dreamcatcherarabians

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:19 AM

" Dont need to breed to a breed standard its a half arab , breeding for what I like:)"

That's exactly what I'm talking about!! Your goals and mine sound the same in that department. I don't want to be a part of any controversy, just wanted to put out a heads up. If they've started really working on their customer service, KUDOS to them.

If you want more info on SS Painted Intimidator, contact me through my profile, I L O V E that horse. And I put my money where my mouth is, I own 4 Breedings to him. So, breed who you like to whatever you like and may you get a foal you flip over backwards in LOVE with!! This is supposed to be FUN, don't let anyone steal your joy. zon.gif

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