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#1 ASpaceOdyssey

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:35 AM

An article that maybe of interest to those that feed Beet pulp.. I personally don't feed it but I know many of you do and I was curious to some of your thoughts on this article.

http://ezinearticles...x...y&id=759474[/url]

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#2 Stanislav

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:00 AM

That is the biggest internet lie and holistic voodoo I have seen in a long time.
Darcy Safin
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#3 ccarabs

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:24 AM

This article sounds like hogwash to me. I'm on an Equine-Cushings yahoo group, and Eleanor Kellon, DVM, posts on there quite frequently as an advisor. She has always recommended rinsed, soaked, and rinsed again beet pulp as a feed source. This quote seems very fishy to me:

"Dr. Eleanor Kellon, DMV, says that beet pulp is safe; it is washed with water to remove the solvents. However, the water only removes what is on the outside. The soaking process removes the sugar from the outside, but not the chemicals. Toxins are stored in the pulp not the juice."

I'm going to post and get her response to it.

Carol
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#4 Bandit

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:28 AM

I feed beet pulp. Not alot but some and if I thought it was bad for them or if they didnt look well, as healthy as horses, I wouldnt feed it.

Ive counceled with my vet on feeding it. His only concern was that they might choke on it. He didnt say anything about any of the issues mentioned in that article and as far as the pesticides remaining in the pulp or any of those other things the author brought up. I think the concern about the pesticides shows that the author is biased about beet pulp because how many other plants have the ability to possibly do the same?

I fed a mare thru the winter with it along with her other feed stuffs and she produced a healthy foal this spring. The foaling went very well.
This is my own belief based on what Ive seen but I personally feel that what Im feeding has a significant impact on the birthing process and this birth went very, very well. The placenta was a beautiful color with excellent texture but not so thick that the foal could not break it on his own. The mare had very little bleeding and dropped the afterbirth not long after she stood up with no tearing. She also has mainitained a very good weight thru the summer this year when in past years she has not and shes not getting any younger.

I do thank you for posting the article though and I will ask my vet about what was written the next time I see him and do some more checking on what was written.

Hey Stanislav, would you tell us why you have the opinion you do about this article? Id like to hear what you have to say about it. :)
Good judgement comes from experience, and alot of that comes from bad judgement-Will Rogers.
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Everything I write here on ABH is my own opinion, unless stated otherwise.

#5 Stanislav

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:09 AM

I don't have time to go into it at length right now...because I need to go work at a veterinarian's office that I slave at... but trying to pin down:
"• Does my horse feel weak in the hind end?
• Are his hooves brittle?
• Does it seem like his stifles are weak?
• Does my horse appear to be lacking energy?
• What about the coat? Is it dull?
• Does my horse have loose stools? Are his stools loose or hard?"

These symptoms on beetpulp is simply outrageous. Beetpulp has safely been fed(SOAKED ONLY if it is in a pelleted/flaked/non-grain form) to horses for centuries. Pesticides "may" be a concern it some lower-quality/non-name brand mills, but companies such as triple crown/BS/Purina etc.... have incredible quality control and significant testing a research being done to each and every field and batch in the factory. I recently worked on a case of grain poisoning and it was incredible to me how fast the company was able to pin down which field the bags of grain came out of, which vat and exactly which stores those bags were sold to... that is what serial# and lot# are for...QUALITY CONTROL!!!!

There are so many variable on the symptoms above... vitamins/minerals/conditioning/genetics... I think it is disturbing the LIES that are put on the internet EVERYDAY to spook people.

Beetpulp is not necessary for every horse. But for the hroses that are starting to have digestive or teeth problems, I do feel that it is helpful. What beetpulp does is that is is very high fiber and it is helps to allow the horses to absorb MORE of the nutrients of the grain and other forages. High fiber also helps intestinal health.
Darcy Safin
Home of *Stanislav (*Mag x *Statistika)
Breeding a few good sporthorses in the quiet corner of Connecticut.

#6 Bandit

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:15 AM

Well thank you Stanislav. My mare might live another day after all. LOL. Hahahahha
Good judgement comes from experience, and alot of that comes from bad judgement-Will Rogers.
The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress, and grows brave by reflection-Thomas Paine.
The Arabian horse. If God made anything more beautiful, he kept it for himself.
Everything I write here on ABH is my own opinion, unless stated otherwise.

#7 Mel Adjusted

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE
once treated a horse that had suffered from laminitis for over eight months. The owner had done her best, and called me to make the horse comfortable with an acupressure massage. When I arrived, I found a beautiful horse lying down for more than four hours a day in great pain. Her owner was giving her supplements, totaling more than 80% protein



I would say that 80% protein would be the culprit here.
Melanie Francis, sacred cow kicking free of charge.

#8 SportHorsin

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 11:20 AM

I tend to think its just BS. I have fed beet pulp for years and our horses are all in great health and condition, with none of the issues listed in the article!
*Michelle*
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#9 Laurie

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:45 PM

I agree. Ours have been fed soaked beet pulp along with good quality grass hay, alfalfa pellets and dry bran, for five years or so; the old ones (31, 28 and 27) get a substantial amount, and are in good weight and enjoying life. Young ones don't get as much, but they don't need it (air ferns).

Laurie

QUOTE(SportHorsin @ Nov 19 2007, 08:20 AM) View Post
I tend to think its just BS. I have fed beet pulp for years and our horses are all in great health and condition, with none of the issues listed in the article!



#10 Mel Adjusted

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:36 PM

lol@ air ferns
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#11 DreamOnAnOn

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 02:22 PM

I don't agree with the article either. It will cause a huge mess though I am sure, some people believe anything. I have a friend who has been feeding horses beet pulp for longer than I can remember. She feels the total opposite from the article, that beet pulp actually aids horses in digestion and absorption of supplements and minerals.

Shari
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#12 ccarabs

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 03:13 PM

I posted on Equine Cushings, and here was Eleanor Kellon's response to my post:

QUOTE
Beet pulp is toxic = Dynamite. They've been claiming this for YEARS
based on the thoughts of a beet truck driver. Period. No facts. Some
excerpts:

CLAIM: "It is an insoluble fiber, meaning that it does not interact
with the body. It rushes through the intestines taking with it
whatever supplements have been given. Simply put, it cannot be
digested...."

FACT: Beet pulp is lower in insoluble fiber than hay, very high in
soluble fiber, highly fermentable in the equine hind gut. You'll find
this soluble fiber in the NFC fraction of the analysis. Nonfermentable
fiber is in the ADF fraction, lower in beet pulp than in any hay,
including alfalfa.

CLAIM: "...takes four molecules of water for the body to process beet
pulp—adding water weight, and making the horse appear heavier. Once
beet pulp is removed from the diet, the horse loses weight quickly,
leading the owner to believe that the horse needs the beet pulp."

FACT: Have no idea where the four molecules of water thing came from -
maybe from BP being able to absorb up to 4 times its weight in water
before being "reconstituted". A horse that loses weight off BP is
losing weight because of calorie reduction. There are a few horses
that don't tolerate BP well, like any other feed ingredient. Horses
with poor populations of fiber fermenting organisms also would not
utilize it well. Beyond that, the water content of the intestinal
contents, and the water required for digestion, is most directly
related to dry matter intake and crude fiber. BP is between hays
(highest) and grains (lowest).


I don't think I have to go into the sugar issue....


CLAIM: "Like many other crops, sugar beets are treated with an
extensive array of herbicides to limit weeds and grasses in the
fields. The herbicides are absorbed by the beets. Nothing removes the
chemicals from the pulp.....Dr. Eleanor Kellon, DMV, says that beet
pulp is safe; it is washed with water to remove the solvents. However,
the water only removes what is on the outside. The soaking process
removes the sugar from the outside, but not the chemicals. Toxins are
stored in the pulp not the juice."

FACT: I'm a VMD, not a DVM. What "solvents"? No solvents are used in
the steps that generate beet pulp. As for pesticides, herbicides etc.,
the bulk of these chemicals in use today are water soluble and degrade
quickly, to avoid problems of build up in the soils and plant/animal
tissues. The same steps you use to remove residues from fresh fruits
and vegetables - i.e. washing with water - has already been done with
beet pulp. The beets are washed, shredded then soaked in hot water.
The water, which contains the sugar, is removed. Sugar beets are a
human crop. The levels of agricultural chemicals allowed in the beets
is strictly specified and controlled for each and every chemical
applied. Over the years I have repeatedly asked the beet pulp
detractors to produce one single shred of evidence that there are
toxic chemicals in BP. They haven't.

As for the other "stories" and claims of hind end weakness, there's
not enough information there to even comment. Beet pulp, like anything
else, needs to be looked at in the context of the whole diet. I will
say that beet pulp and hay as the sole sources of energy/calories will
more often than not be inadequate for a horse performing significant
amounts of regular work, but it has nothing to do with toxicity. It's
a matter of inadequate soluble carbohydrate to keep glycogen levels
where they need to be.

Eleanor

Carol Broyles
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Home of:
SS Barhama Bey (Barbary x Kaptiva)
Chardonnay Bey (Bucharest V x SS Barhama Bey)
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Lady Bar Lasan (Son of a Lady x Miss Lasan Bar)

#13 ASpaceOdyssey

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 03:46 PM

I think the article is bogus myself and the writer is self promoting. I dont feed it at home here, havent had the need, its cost more here per pound than good hay.

However I have a horse coming home next month and where he is kept they feed beet pulp, he seems to have a strong rearend now lets see if he gets even stronger once he is off the beet pulp and drops weight of course... lol...

hey maybe this is whats wrong with all those a** dragging horses out there... maybe its not the genetics after all..lol

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#14 kirsten

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE
Like many other crops, sugar beets are treated with an extensive array of herbicides to limit weeds and grasses in the fields. The herbicides are absorbed by the beets. Nothing removes the chemicals from the pulp. In addition, growers top the beet plants with a chemical defoliant to kill back the tops before harvest. These chemicals also end up by-product beet pulp.
So I guess that means the sugar WE eat made from the beets is full of chemicals?! If it is a bad as this guy is making out, no could sell sugar to people.

QUOTE
Toxins are stored in the pulp not the juice.

Now just HOW is that possible when it all comes from the same beet??

QUOTE
I once treated a horse that had suffered from laminitis for over eight months. The owner had done her best, and called me to make the horse comfortable with an acupressure massage. When I arrived, I found a beautiful horse lying down for more than four hours a day in great pain. Her owner was giving her supplements, totaling more than 80% protein, plus Phenylbutazone (bute) and Banamine, every day. I asked if the horse had colicked, she replied that she had not. To our surprise when we checked the feed, the second ingredient was beet pulp.

OH yes, undoubtedly the whole problem is this scenario was the beet pulp in the feed--NOT!!
QUOTE

The horse was treated with homeopathics and Dynapro, a probiotic from Dynamite.
Sounds like an "ad" to me.

You will notice the whole site is an "ad" for the holistic practitioner. The only real way to make a "name" for yourself is to come up with some new great "theory."

QUOTE

• Does my horse feel weak in the hind end?
• Are his hooves brittle?
• Does it seem like his stifles are weak?
• Does my horse appear to be lacking energy?
• What about the coat? Is it dull?


Yes, my horse was all these things when I brought her back from a "trainer" six weeks ago with body score of about "2!" You can't see it in the photos but each vertebra in her croup stuck up. She acted as if the very act of walking was almost more than she could handle. She is now on 6 lbs. 12% cob, 4 lbs. beet pulp, 5 cups sunflower seeds and 7-10 lbs. alfalfa broken into 3 feeding; also free choice grass hay and I am getting ready to cut out the midday feeding. The bottom photos were taken today about 30 minutes after she had been running full out in the pasture for a good 20 minutes with the herd. You decide if the beet pulp is destroying her!





I had a broodmare that couldn't be given more than three pounds of grain per meal or she suffered severe colic and when she nursed a foal she went to skin and bones in a matter of weeks. Rice bran didn't help at all. Adding oil to the grain helped some but would make her too loose plus she didn't like it. Beet pulp did wonders for this mare--kept her healthy and in a decent weight. When she wasn't nursing, we didn't feed it to her and no she didn't suddenly look thinner due to lack of water in the gut!

#15 ASpaceOdyssey

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:02 PM

Myths of beetpulp

http://www.shady-acr.../beetpulp.shtml[/url]

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#16 elitearab

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 07:16 PM

I started feeding it to my old Eter daughter last spring, she doesn't particularly like it but if I mix her grain in with it she does alright. She is missing 6 teeth, and they are in the unfortunate places where she can't eat hay very well. She does alright with grass, but hay she will chew up and spit out. It's time for her to come in for the winter and I'll put her back on it in a heartbeat. I've seen the chemicals that are put on most hay and grain fields, think I'll take my chances.....

#17 JennyM

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE(kirsten @ Nov 19 2007, 02:51 PM) View Post
...Yes, my horse was all these things when I brought her back from a "trainer" six weeks ago with body score of about "2!" You can't see it in the photos but each vertebra in her croup stuck up. She acted as if the very act of walking was almost more than she could handle. She is now on 6 lbs. 12% cob, 4 lbs. beet pulp, 5 cups sunflower seeds and 7-10 lbs. alfalfa broken into 3 feeding; also free choice grass hay and I am getting ready to cut out the midday feeding. The bottom photos were taken today about 30 minutes after she had been running full out in the pasture for a good 20 minutes with the herd. You decide if the beet pulp is destroying her!


I had a broodmare that couldn't be given more than three pounds of grain per meal or she suffered severe colic and when she nursed a foal she went to skin and bones in a matter of weeks. Rice bran didn't help at all. Adding oil to the grain helped some but would make her too loose plus she didn't like it. Beet pulp did wonders for this mare--kept her healthy and in a decent weight. When she wasn't nursing, we didn't feed it to her and no she didn't suddenly look thinner due to lack of water in the gut!


Gosh Kirsten, I think I'd have to shoot that "trainer"! I'm sure you let your thoughts be known...and did the best kind of voting...with your feet!

Excellent job bringing her back around, she's lovely!
Jen M
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Godspeed, Pavielle! Thank you for letting me be a part of your life!

#18 S&D Sport Horse

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:05 AM

I guess all those distance riders out there that swear by beet pulp (myself included) as an excellent source of long term digestible energy (because it breaks down in the hind gut) do not know what we are doing .... NOT. Put one of my two year olds on it also (to gain some weight before a show), she gained weight .... not in her gut either ... on her hips. And on 32 year old senior citizen who survives on senior feed (main ingredient = beet pulp)!!!!! Oh and did I mention the OTTB who boards at our place .... the beet pulp based senior feed is the only feed that will keep the weight on him without giving him a "pot bellied" appearance!!! That whole internet site loooked like nothing more than an infomercial, sp? to me!!!
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