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Rhino Vaccines And Pregnant Mares


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#1 PennyLane

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:38 PM

We have been reading alot about vaccines and how sometimes they can be detrimental to a horse in some cases. Just this past summer, my mare had an allergic reaction to her yearly vaccines, broke out in hives, sneezing and coughing..etc. Took her weeks to get over it. In the past when having a pregnant mare, I have given the common Rhino/Pneumabort shots at the recommeded intervals. Only this time, with more research, Im not so sure. She was just checked at the beginning of the month and confirmed still in foal of 7 months and is healthy and looks good. I havent given those shots yet, and cant decide what to do. Ive also had experience having a mare that wasnt known to be pregnant and never had the shots and foaled out just fine. Is it just a precautionary? I will be giving the tetanus for sure one month prior to the birth...what are your thoughts on the other?

Ann
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#2 Stanislav

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 09:19 PM

Yes, I always give the Prodigy Rhino vaccine( I found less vaccine reactions than with the pneumbort) because my vet has warned that I have a larger herd of 12 and horses can become latent carriers and break out at anytime, so even with my closed farm there could possibly have a carrier horse from an old show horse or I could brig rhino home on me!

Not worth the risk!

I boost Rabies, EEE, WEE, FLU, RHINO, Tetnus, WNV at day 310ish to boost foal immunity.
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#3 Sand Dancers

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE(PennyLane @ Dec 27 2007, 06:38 PM) View Post
We have been reading alot about vaccines and how sometimes they can be detrimental to a horse in some cases. Just this past summer, my mare had an allergic reaction to her yearly vaccines, broke out in hives, sneezing and coughing..etc. Took her weeks to get over it. In the past when having a pregnant mare, I have given the common Rhino/Pneumabort shots at the recommeded intervals. Only this time, with more research, Im not so sure. She was just checked at the beginning of the month and confirmed still in foal of 7 months and is healthy and looks good. I havent given those shots yet, and cant decide what to do. Ive also had experience having a mare that wasnt known to be pregnant and never had the shots and foaled out just fine. Is it just a precautionary? I will be giving the tetanus for sure one month prior to the birth...what are your thoughts on the other?

Ann


I have had three horses with severe allergic reactions to WNV vaccine (Ft. Dodge) and will never have it given again to ANY of my horses. One gelding staggered and went down (literally) and then got laminitis shortly after the second shot and has never gotten completely better. A beautiful Spanish Arabian mare aborted at 9 months after her 1st WN vaccination (she had had 2 pneumabort shots!) I stopped those also and have not lost another foal in the last 5 years. I do have a small closed mare herd...and no local outbreaks of disease here. Maybe the cons to using the above vaccines are worth considering if you show or have incoming new horses or any local problems. At any rate *I* will not use the WNV vaccine ever again. Just my own experiences...
"There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing."

Will Rogers

#4 kirsten

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:07 PM

It was my understanding that rabies shouldn't be given to pregnant mares? I have given WN at all stages of pregnancy from a few weeks to 11 months with no problem; however, I no longer give it at the end or the first three months of pregnancy. I don't usually give rhino unless I have horses coming in and out. Give tentaus, flu, eee and wee at about 11 months pregnant.

#5 PennyLane

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE(Sand Dancers @ Dec 27 2007, 11:43 PM) View Post
I have had three horses with severe allergic reactions to WNV vaccine (Ft. Dodge) and will never have it given again to ANY of my horses. One gelding staggered and went down (literally) and then got laminitis shortly after the second shot and has never gotten completely better. A beautiful Spanish Arabian mare aborted at 9 months after her 1st WN vaccination (she had had 2 pneumabort shots!) I stopped those also and have not lost another foal in the last 5 years. I do have a small closed mare herd...and no local outbreaks of disease here. Maybe the cons to using the above vaccines are worth considering if you show or have incoming new horses or any local problems. At any rate *I* will not use the WNV vaccine ever again. Just my own experiences...


So you dont give the Pneumabort to your mares anymore? We have a small herd as well, and they dont really ever go anywhere. Just the occasional trail rides, almost all the horses here have their shots. Steve and I have different views on vaccines....he doesnt believe in it at all, and my views have changed somewhat over the years. I just dont really know what to do. Every horse this particular mare may come in contact with is current on their yearlies....The ones that arent, are on the hill, and she doesnt really see them, and they dont go anywhere. By the way, we are 20 min. outside of Bowling Green, says you are close to Nashville?

Ann

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#6 PennyLane

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE(kirsten @ Dec 28 2007, 12:07 AM) View Post
It was my understanding that rabies shouldn't be given to pregnant mares? I have given WN at all stages of pregnancy from a few weeks to 11 months with no problem; however, I no longer give it at the end or the first three months of pregnancy. I don't usually give rhino unless I have horses coming in and out. Give tentaus, flu, eee and wee at about 11 months pregnant.



I most definately will plan to give the tetanus, this mare is up to date on all her normal shots, but do what about this Pneumabort? Its not the same thing as Rhino vac. is it? I think Im starting to confuse myself. Do you give your pregnant mares the Pneumabort?
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#7 Sand Dancers

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE(PennyLane @ Dec 27 2007, 10:09 PM) View Post
So you dont give the Pneumabort to your mares anymore? We have a small herd as well, and they dont really ever go anywhere. Just the occasional trail rides, almost all the horses here have their shots. Steve and I have different views on vaccines....he doesnt believe in it at all, and my views have changed somewhat over the years. I just dont really know what to do. Every horse this particular mare may come in contact with is current on their yearlies....The ones that arent, are on the hill, and she doesnt really see them, and they dont go anywhere. By the way, we are 20 min. outside of Bowling Green, says you are close to Nashville?

Ann


Hi Ann...

I am midway between Nashville and BG, just off of I 65.....in TN but on the Ky border.

No, I no longer give Rhino/pneumabort and I have read too many terrible things about the WNV vaccine plus my own experiences. There was even a web site concerning the "problems" it caused in some pregnant mares/foals, etc...not very pleasant to view. Of course, I don't get flu shots either so this is just my preference. lol It is really up to you what vaccines you want to use or not use.

You are not very far from me. If you go to my profile here on ABH you can find my web site. Drop me a line and let me know about your horses.


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"There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing."

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#8 PennyLane

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE(Sand Dancers @ Dec 28 2007, 12:29 AM) View Post
Hi Ann...

I am midway between Nashville and BG, just off of I 65.....in TN but on the Ky border.

No, I no longer give Rhino/pneumabort and I have read too many terrible things about the WNV vaccine plus my own experiences. There was even a web site concerning the "problems" it caused in some pregnant mares/foals, etc...not very pleasant to view. Of course, I don't get flu shots either so this is just my preference. lol It is really up to you what vaccines you want to use or not use.

You are not very far from me. If you go to my profile here on ABH you can find my web site. Drop me a line and let me know about your horses.



I dont get flu shots either. This mare is current on her normal shots, just not on this Pneumabort. I have given it in the past with my other mare, and had a mare that never had it and the foal was fine. Ill just have to think about this some more.

I did look at your profile and website. Very nice stallions. Our site is on my profile as well, if you would like to check it out. I used to live in Bowling Green for almost 15 years, and just recently moved to Morgantown. My other half has several clients around the Portland and Bethpage area.

Nice to meet you :)

Ann
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#9 jcts

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 12:15 AM

Just my personal opinion here, but one formed after 30+ years of being involved in a family that bred, raised, and showed horses extensively. We probably had more than 50 foals born at the farm over the course of our involvement in breeding and followed the rhino vaccine recommendation for all of them. Never had even ONE adverse reaction to the shot and only ever lost one foal in all that time, a mare that aborted for reasons other than the rhino vaccine.

My vet says that rhino is always present on all farms and is a virus that is always mutating. It really does not matter whether your pregnant mare is going anywhere or not, or whether other horses on the farm are going places and bringing "bugs" home, you are still at risk. Obviously you are at more risk if you do have a high traffic barn, but no horses on or off the property does not insure complete protection.

If you had ever experienced the absolute devastation of finding an aborted foal and having an upset, depressed, and traumatized mare on top of your own sense of lost dreams, you absolutely would not even consider not vaccinating. But that is just my opinion.

Pregnant mares can indeed be vaccinated for rabies and in my opinion should be. Again, just my opinion, but cases of rabid bats were way up by about 500% this year for some reason, and why would anyone want to mess with something as lethal and awful as that?! Have seen rabies suspect horses at our University Vet School--not a pretty sight at all and every non-vaccinated person who comes in contact with a rabid suspect animal has to go through the whole course of rabies shots--something you do NOT want to have to do, and believe me, your local heath department will be ALL over you if such a thing happens at your farm.

Again, just my opinion. Good luck with your mare and I hope you have a full term, healthy baby who stays that way.

#10 maigray

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 12:49 AM

Yes, all vaccines are precautionary/preventative by nature.

Pneumabort is the brand name. It protects against abortion in mares by equineherpesvirus-1, which is one of the causes of rhinopneumonitis.

A horse cannot contract the disease from, nor can the vaccine cause, abortion, because Pneumabort is a killed virus vaccine. Incidentally, this is also true for the flu and WN shots.

The vaccine will not (and does not claim to) provide complete protection against primary infection. It will reduce the severity of clinical signs and most likely lower viral shedding.

Many mature horses are already latent carriers of the disease. Stress may re-activate the latent form of the disease.

Bottom line; vaccination of pregnant mares is still recommended. Discuss the risks with your veterinarian.
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#11 siiamese

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE
Bottom line; vaccination of pregnant mares is still recommended. Discuss the risks with your veterinarian.


have always vaccinated my mares in foal - - especially the pneumobort at months 5, 7, & 9. we have never had a problem. I would be more concerned about NOT keeping my horses vaccinated and what might happen to the foal without the pre-natal care

#12 Phanilah

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 02:10 PM

Just something to keep in mind for those who have a mare in foal to an outside stallion - CHECK YOUR breeding contract because there could very well be a stipulation for the life foal guarantee to be valid, the mare has to have documentation of having received rhino vaccinations from a licensed vet during the pregnancy.

Beth

P.S. Personally, I would be hard pressed to not vaccinate a pregnant mare for rhino. I can't count the number of pregnant mares I've worked with and rhino vx was standard protocol...and I don't recall any issues that would keep me from doing the vaccination. The risk of herpes related abortion isn't worth it to me. But, JMO!
si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes

#13 Georgine

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 03:51 PM

One of the problems in this country with Vaccines is that we have had most of them for awhile. There are way too many of us that have never seen the horrible things that happen when people and animals get the diseases. The reason that the Vaccines were created is because of the problems and deaths that the diseases caused. Yes, there is always a risk when giving a Vaccine that who ever it is given to will have a reaction. Sometimes a very bad reaction even death. However the occurance of the reaction and the severity of it is always way less than the damage and death the disease can cause.

We have also allowed way too much Junk Science to effect the use of Vaccines in both Humans and Animals. The horror stories of West Nile Virus being one in Horses and the Childhood Vaccines in Humans. If we continue down the path we are going, there are going to be disease that we got rid of, that are going to start occuring again and it is going to be really bad.

#14 PennyLane

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 04:46 PM

Can any of you say you know of a case of a mare aborting due to NOT having her Rhino vaccine?


Ann
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#15 Phanilah

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE(PennyLane @ Dec 28 2007, 01:46 PM) View Post
Can any of you say you know of a case of a mare aborting due to NOT having her Rhino vaccine?
Ann


Yes and a review of the vet literature (even a quick one) will give an idea of how much of a role herpes infection can play in late term abortion.

Beth
si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes

#16 Stanislav

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 06:54 PM

Yes, I have seen mares about due to Rhino- not pleasant!
Darcy Safin
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Breeding a few good sporthorses in the quiet corner of Connecticut.

#17 siiamese

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 07:05 PM

yes - - it is definitely not worth the risk
think of it as getting your child vaccinated for polio.............even though you have never seen an actual case, why would you risk it?

#18 cvm2002

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 02:18 AM

As Georgine alluded to, the reason you DON'T see herpesvirus abortions is BECAUSE we have vaccination. Stop vaccinating and you'll see the cases occurring more frequently. With the current outbreaks of neurologic herpes that are occurring, we know just how prevalent EHV-1 is. While we can't protect against the neurologic form, its EHV-1 that causes abortion. Remember too that you MUST use a vaccine specific for EHV-1a & -1b Your general Rhino/Flu vaccine isn't specific enough.
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#19 DreamOnAnOn

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE(jcts @ Dec 28 2007, 12:15 AM) View Post
If you had ever experienced the absolute devastation of finding an aborted foal and having an upset, depressed, and traumatized mare on top of your own sense of lost dreams, you absolutely would not even consider not vaccinating. But that is just my opinion.


We actually had a mare abort that had been vaccinated. The foal was taken to the university and it was confirmed the abortion was due to Rhino. They said basically that the vaccine is not fool-proof. I vaccinate the mares that are pregnant and living inside but not the ones living outside. I am one of those believers that we over-vaccinate our animals so I am very conservative in my vaccination program. I nearly lost a dog after she received her annual vaccines. I am also one of those who have seen devastating results from the West Nile vaccine both in pregnant mares and other horses so I am also very cautious there, basically I don't use it anymore.

Shari

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#20 Charlie Dawg

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 11:31 AM

I have administered probably over 1,000 doses of EHV1/4 over the years and have never had a problem. I have, in private practice, seen unvaccinated mares abort from rhino. I too have a relatively closed herd but for the minimal effort and expense it takes to vaccinate, I would never not vaccinate for rhino.

I also breed to outside stallions and the breeding contracts almost always stipulate that the LFG is null and void if the mare has not recieved her 5,7 and 9 month rhino vaccines.

Just doesn't make sense to me not to.
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to advice. Proverbs 12:15

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