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#1 toskhara too

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:32 AM

And another horse show draws to a close in a few hours.

And like every other show, Mr.David Bobbs is always to be found in some discussion somewhere.

There seems to be the most intense dislike or incredible divotion for the man from the Arabian Community. Not many opinions to be found in the middle.

He is the only show person that was at the very top in the 'magic' 80tis and STILL is the - to many - undisputed king of halter horses and their MARKETING.

For many years now I have been asking myself what his great attraction is for many horse owners.

Let's put aside his 'bad boy' image for a minute ans ask why he is so good at what he does.

It's a very simple answer :

HIS CLIENTS HAVE FUN !

For most of the Arabian Horse owners - this is a hobby.

And any hobby you choose - the reason is you enjoy the activity and it brings you FUN and satisfaction - you feel good.

And that's where Mr.Boggs greatest talents come to light - he makes sure his clients and prospective customers are having the best time possible.

He sells them a horse that almost guarantees to win/place at the show. He has huge parties where the owners are wined and dined and they are made to feel very special.
The atmosphere resembles a 70tis love-in and everybody is part of a hugely successful 'family'.

It's all about Marketing this hobby and how to have the time of your life.
And for awhile - Mr.Boggs delives better to the rich masses than anybody else ever has.

If you respected him or loathed him over the years in his interactions with The Arabian Horse,
that is a whole different subject to this one.
But when it comes to promoting the Arabian to big dollar clients - he is the Master at it.

Christine.
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo,
but what you want is someone that takes the bus with you when the limo breaks down.
O.Winfrey

#2 CarrieLewis

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:14 PM

Strokin'
Happy trails,
Carrie A. Woolverton
Triple Cross Ranches & Honey Creek Farms
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I will still keep horses as long as
I can shuffle along with a pail.
When I can no longer shuffle,
I will roll my wheelchair to the pasture
Fence to watch my horses graze.

#3 toskhara too

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:18 PM



If you want this industry to grow - you better figure out in one big hurry -

how to make it FUN for the public and the exhibitors/owners.

Christine.
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo,
but what you want is someone that takes the bus with you when the limo breaks down.
O.Winfrey

#4 CarrieLewis

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:26 PM

We used to be regulars at an Open Show held in the Denton area which has been going on for over 25 years, every month. It's a great place to learn and pay one's dues.

The master of clients having fun is Bill Harwood. He used to bring his amateur and youth riders by the dozens. They'd have a blast all day cheering and jeering (good naturedly of course) one another and every rider had their pit crews along for the fun and comraderie.

At the end of the show (now this is a training show where any attire is acceptible and young horses and riders are in abundance) - out came the champagne bottles and hors d'oeurves ... the celebration had begun.

What fun that group had and all were welcome to join in with their celebration. Bill Harwood was such a great trainer, exhibitor, showman. He never made anyone feel lesser for asking questions and wanting to learn. He was the amateur owner's King.
Happy trails,
Carrie A. Woolverton
Triple Cross Ranches & Honey Creek Farms
http://www.honeycreekfarms.biz/

American Foundation Arabian Horses - The Original ATVs

Pulque Preservation Program
Texas Foundation Arabian Horse Association
American Foundation Arabian Horse Association

When age prevents me from riding,
I will still keep horses as long as
I can shuffle along with a pail.
When I can no longer shuffle,
I will roll my wheelchair to the pasture
Fence to watch my horses graze.

#5 Cindy C

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:27 PM

Christine, you are absolutely correct. All you have to do is talk to him in person and you can understand why he is at the top. I totally agree on the fun part. why do this if your not having fun, this can be very expensive and if not expensive a LOT OF HARD WORK. Cindy

#6 billie940

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:40 PM

David has worked very hard for years to get where he is, he has paid the price of getting caught at 'having' too much fun....has never taken his eye off the prize! I have heard the rumors of how the horses are 'schooled, I own one that has been there...plus other hard schools...but Boggs has continued on, to rein King of Halter. Perhaps they do/have done, all that is rumored, if so that is sad and despicable. But the fact remains this group has succeeded in the Arabian business when others have come and gone! It's an energy, like Christine says...excitement! Every time he wins he acts like it is the first time! That is contagious! People want part of the action, part of the energy, the fun of being the winner...having the best!

If we could figure out how to generate all that without doing anything cruel or deceitful to the horse, it would be a benefit and a marketing tool that would increase interest in the Arabian Horse for all of us. We need Zig Ziggler to help those of us that just 'love' our horses and don't know how to market them.
Another point of interest here is that Boggs spends money to celebrate his customers, his life, his profession...his wins. Those that can't or won't do that cannot possibly compete with the likes of him, it's a matter of what league to play in. It doesn't mean you can't play, only that you need to realize where your playing field is!
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Billie Glosser
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#7 FiveBays

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 12:57 PM

Christine,

I think Boggs got off easy for his very serious ethical violations. He shouldn't even be in the show ring.

However, you're absolutely right. He knows that the key is clients having fun and shows in his recent ads - family, friends, and fun.

Dave

#8 BeccaAllred

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:02 PM

It's all about marketing a lifestyle, giving the impression (or actually delivering) that one has managed to be included into a very private, elite, and privileged club.

The man does it well and seems to be able to form enough support to weather the negative (gossip? observations?).


My only reservation concerning a return to the '80s is the fact that some truely sad (conformationally speaking) horses were sold as stellar specimens and then bred on-----hopefully we can avoid this and build a high end market of truely amazing horses.
Rebecca Allred

#9 JBryant

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE(toskhara too @ Feb 23 2008, 11:32 AM) View Post
And another horse show draws to a close in a few hours.

And like every other show, Mr.David Bobbs is always to be found in some discussion somewhere.

There seems to be the most intense dislike or incredible divotion for the man from the Arabian Community. Not many opinions to be found in the middle.

He is the only show person that was at the very top in the 'magic' 80tis and STILL is the - to many - undisputed king of halter horses and their MARKETING.

For many years now I have been asking myself what his great attraction is for many horse owners.

Let's put aside his 'bad boy' image for a minute ans ask why he is so good at what he does.

It's a very simple answer :

HIS CLIENTS HAVE FUN !


For most of the Arabian Horse owners - this is a hobby.

And any hobby you choose - the reason is you enjoy the activity and it brings you FUN and satisfaction - you feel good.

And that's where Mr.Boggs greatest talents come to light - he makes sure his clients and prospective customers are having the best time possible.

He sells them a horse that almost guarantees to win/place at the show. He has huge parties where the owners are wined and dined and they are made to feel very special.
The atmosphere resembles a 70tis love-in and everybody is part of a hugely successful 'family'.

It's all about Marketing this hobby and how to have the time of your life.
And for awhile - Mr.Boggs delives better to the rich masses than anybody else ever has.

If you respected him or loathed him over the years in his interactions with The Arabian Horse,
that is a whole different subject to this one.
But when it comes to promoting the Arabian to big dollar clients - he is the Master at it.

Christine.



Christine, so well written and right on point. For all those folks that want to be critical of him -- he has contributed a lot to the breed and also helped benefit this breed in many economic ways.

Thank you Christine for putting it into perspective.

Julia Bryant
Sea Breeze Arabians
Suffolk, VA
www.seabreezearabians.com

#10 Bandit

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:15 PM

Whats up with all this A$$ kissin'? This is a real change of heart for some here. What happened, did someone buy a horse from him or what? I think I wanna either puke or go have some fun with David. image004.gif Oh wait, Im not a millionaire so I cant do that. Ill just have to settle for some fun out in the north forty. image005.gif

All I can think of when I think of D. Boggs is of a dark bay stallion and a tattoo artist named Spider. Thats it.
Good judgement comes from experience, and alot of that comes from bad judgement-Will Rogers.
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The Arabian horse. If God made anything more beautiful, he kept it for himself.
Everything I write here on ABH is my own opinion, unless stated otherwise.

#11 AO Arabs

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:15 PM

"There seems to be the most intense dislike or incredible divotion for the man from the Arabian Community. Not many opinions to be found in the middle."

You can also have both feelings at the same time, lol! I totally agree with your whole post. They DO have fun. He has a lot of class, know-how and dedication and has been extremely successful for a lllonnng time.

Diane

#12 Mirage

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 01:27 PM

Must admit, when I saw David as the topic for this thread my immediate reaction was, "Oh no here we go again, halter is horrible, everybody is abusive, halter has ruined Arabians, the Boggs are evil, etc."

How refreshing to see a good businessman actually acknowledged for his accomplishments. And by the way I have no affiliation with the Boggs and have never met them...but you've got to be doing something right to stay on top this long :)

#13 billie940

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 02:29 PM

QUOTE(Bandit @ Feb 23 2008, 12:15 PM) View Post
Whats up with all this A$$ kissin'? This is a real change of heart for some here. What happened, did someone buy a horse from him or what? I think I wanna either puke or go have some fun with David. image004.gif Oh wait, Im not a millionaire so I cant do that. Ill just have to settle for some fun out in the north forty. image005.gif

All I can think of when I think of D. Boggs is of a dark bay stallion and a tattoo artist named Spider. Thats it.


Bandit you are correct, the point is: Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!

We know some of what he has rumored to have done, should make you want to puke...me too! But what's wrong with looking at his success too! The part about how he works the crowd, the world actually! He does bring attention to our horses...our breed!
Let him have the Millionaires...I just want regular people that pay their bills and love my horses enough to buy one, two or more . And tell other people to come here for their horse, if an occasional Sheik comes by I'll deal with it! In fact if he buys a horse from me, I'll pay for his hotel room! That is if it's here in Denton, TX they aren't too expensive!

I wish I could trust Mr. Boggs not to do anything bad to my horses I would love to have a halter trainer with his success record! But then, we have to keep in mind that our trainers are the first judges we present our horses too...if they get passed their judgment then on to the show ring!
www.lovenwararabians.com

Billie Glosser
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#14 susanrae

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE(Mirage @ Feb 23 2008, 11:27 AM) View Post
Must admit, when I saw David as the topic for this thread my immediate reaction was, "Oh no here we go again, halter is horrible, everybody is abusive, halter has ruined Arabians, the Boggs are evil, etc."

How refreshing to see a good businessman actually acknowledged for his accomplishments. And by the way I have no affiliation with the Boggs and have never met them...but you've got to be doing something right to stay on top this long :)



I agree with all of the posts giving David Boggs the credit he deserves. Yes, he did make some serious errors in judgement, however, that is history, and I, for one, do not believe anyone in this industry has not made some "less than wonderful" decisions, MOST of which we don't know about. Given the big picture, he is still a major motivator of our breed, whether or not you like or dislike him. He and Mr. Byatt, among others, have been instrumental in world-wide promotion of Arabians, which is to our benefit, especially if you breed or sell horses, Name recognition of a stallion or mare, does help us all, if we happen to have those particular bloodline(s). I'm not referring to just MP, I'm speaking of many different pedigrees. He is a phenomenal businessman, promoter, and halter trainer. Wish I had a tenth of that talent! I also wish we had performance trainers, in all of our respective chosen disciplines, who would learn how to do the amazing job he does for his clients and the Arabian horse.

I agree
, Christine, his clients have FUN. I believe Mr. Boggs is doing what he loves , and in so doing, including his clients into the whole thing, success naturally comes. I commend him for that. I don't get the impression that he makes his clients feel small, or not necessary to the process, or good only for "paying the way". A vey large number of trainers do, which also hurts us all. If sending your horse out brings nothing but stress, there is no communication about what
's happening (or not), and you are feeling like a stepchild, that trainer will not see more of your horses, will they? I strongly suspect that Mr. Boggs keeps his all of his clients feeling as important as the next one. They then keep coming back. JMHO






Susan Bates, Stormhaven Arabians

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TOP TEN SPORT HORSE STALLION IN HAND 2006 SHN
TOP TEN SPORT HORSE UNDER SADDLE JR. HORSE 2006 SHN


Proudly owned by DONATELLO K, multi champion and sire of champions
Breeding for quality, correct conformation, good minds, and athletic ability IASA link

#15 elitearab

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 03:08 PM

I agree that he does seem to do an amazing job for his clients. He wins, they sell their horses for big $$ and he get the big fat commission. When he wins...they win, When they win....he wins it's a very mutual parasitic relationship that alot of trainers share with their clients. I'm glad they have fun, they throw parties, alot of people do that. In an economic model he keeps the industry alive and growing. But at what cost? He has proven he will do whatever it takes to win and the horse's well being is not as high on his priorities as winning. He's a master showman, if he cut off the mullet and put on a top hat he could probably take over Barnamun Baileys running all 3 rings by himself. But as far as a horseman...... sorry.

#16 susanrae

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE(elitearab @ Feb 23 2008, 01:08 PM) View Post
I agree that he does seem to do an amazing job for his clients. He wins, they sell their horses for big $ and he get the big fat commission. When he wins...they win, When they win....he wins it's a very mutual parasitic relationship that alot of trainers share with their clients. I'm glad they have fun, they throw parties, alot of people do that. In an economic model he keeps the industry alive and growing. But at what cost? He has proven he will do whatever it takes to win and the horse's well being is not as high on his priorities as winning. He's a master showman, if he cut off the mullet and put on a top hat he could probably take over Barnamun Baileys running all 3 rings by himself. But as far as a horseman...... sorry.


Have you ever been to Midwest and see first hand anything going on there?
12 years ago, I had the privilege of visiting there. Totally unplanned, no appointment, and I drove a semi truck up into the yard. The staff was incredibly gracious, toured my husband and myself all over the place, introduced us to Bey Shah, brough Padron out of his stall, let us stay to watch a stallion collection training session. I saw nothing amiss, and I saw content horses, plus I was treated as if I were an important potential client, though they didn't know this "truckdriver and her husband from Adam". I was, and still am, very grateful that they allowed us to "drop in" unannounced like that, even in a huge semi. (We were so close, thought I'd take a chance, and it paid off.) I saw NO evidence of lack of "horsemanship" on the part of anyone there. Mr. Boggs, IMO, is a horseman, has been most of his life. If it were only promotion and "circus tricks", he wouldn't still be so successful, despite some mistakes in good judgement.
Susan Bates, Stormhaven Arabians

Proud owner of SH REDEMPTION,
TOP TEN SPORT HORSE STALLION IN HAND 2006 SHN
TOP TEN SPORT HORSE UNDER SADDLE JR. HORSE 2006 SHN


Proudly owned by DONATELLO K, multi champion and sire of champions
Breeding for quality, correct conformation, good minds, and athletic ability IASA link

#17 susanrae

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE(susanrae @ Feb 23 2008, 01:22 PM) View Post
Have you ever been to Midwest and see first hand anything going on there?
12 years ago, I had the privilege of visiting there. Totally unplanned, no appointment, and I drove a semi truck up into the yard. The staff was incredibly gracious, toured my husband and myself all over the place, introduced us to Bey Shah, brough Padron out of his stall, let us stay to watch a stallion collection training session. I saw nothing amiss, and I saw content horses, plus I was treated as if I were an important potential client, though they didn't know this "truckdriver and her husband from Adam". I was, and still am, very grateful that they allowed us to "drop in" unannounced like that, even in a huge semi. (We were so close, thought I'd take a chance, and it paid off.) I saw NO evidence of lack of "horsemanship" on the part of anyone there. Mr. Boggs, IMO, is a horseman, has been most of his life. If it were only promotion and "circus tricks", he wouldn't still be so successful, despite some mistakes in good judgement.


Besides, what in the world is wrong with "getting a big fat commission? " He earns them. Don't we all like to be paid for what we do well? For Pete's sake, since when do people who are very successful need to wory about being crucified for BEING PAID ?
Susan Bates, Stormhaven Arabians

Proud owner of SH REDEMPTION,
TOP TEN SPORT HORSE STALLION IN HAND 2006 SHN
TOP TEN SPORT HORSE UNDER SADDLE JR. HORSE 2006 SHN


Proudly owned by DONATELLO K, multi champion and sire of champions
Breeding for quality, correct conformation, good minds, and athletic ability IASA link

#18 billie940

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:03 PM

Besides, what in the world is wrong with "getting a big fat commission? " He earns them. Don't we all like to be paid for what we do well? For Pete's sake, since when do people who are very successful need to wory about being crucified for BEING PAID ?
**************************************************************************************8

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with commissions...to me that has not been the issue with Mr. Boggs!

I guess I'm one of those people Christine said there were not many of...I don't hate him and I'm not loyal to him...I think I am a realist. I don't think I would ever send him a horse, winning is not that important to me, I would not make a good court witness against him because I only know that he was suspended for several years, everything else is hearsay. But there sure is a lot of hearsay from people I know and respect...I don't know him.

None of that alters the fact that he does some intelligent marketing...with people.

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Billie Glosser
Love N' War Arabians
Denton, TX 76207

#19 twarab

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:11 PM

I would just like to add that you do not have to be rich to do business with David. Carl and I are most definitely not in the "rich crowd". However, through the years, David has always treated us with respect and kindness. We have leased mares to his clients, we have sold horses to David. In most cases, all of our business was at first by word and a handshake. Everything he stated he would do, he did. I wish I could say that all of my business dealings with others have gone as well.

I am kind of shy...don't make many phone calls...anytime I have sent David an email he has ALWAYS responded. Again, can't say that about others.

I am not a major client, I have never purchased a horse or even bred to a stallion at Midwest. But if I go to the Scottsdale farm and ask to see a horse...David will always either let me go in with the horse or bring it out for me.

I am sure that there are others who have horror stories to tell. I know there are people that I will never do business with again but then talk to someone else who thinks they are wonderful. I just base my opinions on how someone treats me.

Some bad things were done and I certainly did not approve of them...but those people who were around back then know that these things were also done by many other trainers and they were lucky and did not get caught.

And Christine....you are so right. Not ALL trainers make it fun for their clients. I can think of several who do not.

Pat
Trade Winds Arabians.....breeders of "TW" Arabians since 1963!

#20 gessepi

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE(BeccaAllred @ Feb 23 2008, 12:02 PM) View Post
It's all about marketing a lifestyle, giving the impression (or actually delivering) that one has managed to be included into a very private, elite, and privileged club.

The man does it well and seems to be able to form enough support to weather the negative (gossip? observations?).
My only reservation concerning a return to the '80s is the fact that some truely sad (conformationally speaking) horses were sold as stellar specimens and then bred on-----hopefully we can avoid this and build a high end market of truely amazing horses.

What the hell does the 80's have to do with bad breeding. Hell there is more bad breeding going on right now than any time in our industry. Get over the 80's syndrome.

Bad things occur every day, every generation and throughout society. Learn what the 80's really represented instead of this the 80's did terrible things bullshit.

Shitza, The 500,000 year old Guru, who speaks thru Tom Zaffer, says, Obama is destroying the USA and needs to go back to community organizing, which is what he is suited for





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